Immigration Issue Commentary/Discussion

Here at The Blue State when itcomes to the immigration situation, we don't post or discuss the issue all thatmuch, and this post is to start a discussion about it and see how our visitorsfeel (both new as well as the veterans).

I think the one commonality we all have is "something needs to be doneabout immigration". Whether you're on the far right that feels "theyshould all go", or the far left "they should all stay", I thinkwe all agree "something" needs to be done to coincide with yourargument.

I'll start: With the estimation at 12-20 million illegal immigrants in theU.S. (I went with the high and low #'s and don't want to start putting links inthis post), let's face it...we do not have the resources to "kick themout", and even if we could, getting rid of that many people would disruptthe country's economy. Most towns in the U.S. have illegal multi-familydwellings, or dwellings that house a number of illegal immigrants. Taking the"immigrant" part of this equation out, I personally don't want 10-20men, ages 17-35 living illegally next to me in a single dwelling, or 3-5families living in a 2 family home next door either. On the other hand (andunder the current circumstances) I don't want to see a family (orindividual) that have been here; working hard; living responsibly, andcontributing in a positive way to our society, to be uprooted and deported.

(Loosely) The new bill has the illegal immigrants paying $1000 to stay, workfor a couple of years then return to their homeland and remain for a year, thencome back. For starters, this isn't going to expose the terrorists or thecriminal element, and I'm not sure how many would have an extra $Grand floatingaround, which would keep them (non criminal element) in the shadows as well.Maybe this fine should be lowered? As far as the reality of people packing upand leaving their homes, jobs, friends etc. after 2 years doesn't seem very realisticto me either.

I do think that when someone is arrested on felony charges, they be tried andif convicted, serve their time and then be deported. If arrested on misdemeanorcharges, once processed, they need to be handed the paperwork for citizenshipand registered. There are way more issues than I have mentioned, and I'm noteven sure if my ideas are realistic, but I do know one thing, somethingneeds to be done. 

In my opinion the ideas from the far left and right are mainly based onpersonal feelings rather than reason or common sense..."get rid of em"no "keep em" just doesn't make sense and wouldn't work. We do as anation have a right to know who is here.

Chime in and be heard.

Comments

[Brien]

I don't see why "keep 'em" seems like an unrealistic option. By default, that's what is happening in our society today. Where's the problem? What is the reason why immigration needs to be stopped? Is there a chronic shortage of jobs in this country that the removal of illegal immigrants would alleviate? Is there a drain on our currency being sent out of the country that rivals the overseas investment surges, or the stashing of corporate profits in offshore accounts.
Are illegal immigrants at the root of the drug problem in this nation? Do terrorists tend to cross the Mexican border? Would our heatlth care problems be solved by having immigrant children and families receive proper health care rather than receive expensive and sub-standard health care in emergency rooms at the expense of the US taxpayer? Should Americans risk the priveledge of traveling freely, vacationing and retiring in Mexico as so many currently do?
Why are all the arguments on illegal immigration rhetorical? I suspect it's because the problem is imaginary or at best appeal to people's sense of right and wrong rather than in a set off definable arguments.
Immigrants are a resource to this nation both culturally and economically. If we embrace this reality as being both positive and inevitable, we could benefit from our friendly neighbors to the south in a less exploitative manner. The reasons for easing up on immigration enforcement are altruistic in my mind, but also rational in the interest of the common good.

[Tony]

Brien,

I think the main problem with "all" or "nothing" is it isn't fair for the American people which oppose one or the other. 

"What is the reason why immigration needs to be stopped?" Immigration isn't the issue, illegal immigration is. It is important to know who the people are coming and going within a country (any country). Within the "12-20 million" there are some which are criminals and they shouldn't have the right to stay, America has its own share of this element, but unfortunately there isn't any place to ship them too. 

As far as the other issues you mentioned, I do believe they do have an affect on the country, sales tax is paid, but in many cases  income tax is not, and a lot of money does get sent "back home". As far as Americans vacationing and retiring into Mexico; Mexico doesn't have an illegal immigration issue with Americans,  and Mexico's tourist industry relies largely on American money.

I don't agree with every law in the U.S., and some of them might even be considered senseless, but without laws you end up with chaos and anarchy. I think this is where the fundamental issue lies. I am all for immigration, as well as giving amnesty...just not an "amnesty blanket".

[granny]

I may not take the full plunge here, but I’ll sure get wet, I’m betting.

My take is that a HUGE factor in the immigration difficulties we’re now complaining about, is that as a country we have been too spineless in setting standards, insisting that the laws we do have be carried out, demanding that civil liberties and human rights be protected – for all humans – and, at the same time, insisting that those who choose to enlarge their lives by coming here, join our society, and abide by our rules; AND, that those who bring outsiders here for their own commercial interests be held to the same account. We are so plagued but “gutlessness”, self interest, and small mindedness.

I don‘t have an answer … if we can entertain the idea that there is “AN” answer. I have grave misgivings about amnesty, but know that in fact, we cannot “send back”
hundreds of thousands of people – whether or not it’s because we’ve screwed up so badly.

I DO think, unquestionably, that if a person comes here from another country to live, and work, to make a life, to vote – that they should be REQUIRED to learn to speak the language of this country. You come here, you learn to speak English. When you’ve learned, within a time frame, you go get your citizenship – or you go home.

The same goes for the children: go to school here, after a period of time, you’re schooled in English. That’s the language here. (and it does not take young children a long time, at all, to learn to speak a new language) . I, quite frankly, think having a two language election ballot is preposterous. We’re an English speaking country. Period. If you can vote you’re a citizen. You can’t be a citizen if you cannot read and write the language.

I’m not being a snob about this. This is a serious problem. People who come here, and elect not to understand and speak the language, elect not to integrate – not to melt into the melting pot, to some extent – thus becoming isolated and insular creating divisions, misunderstandings, and generating a sense of not being a part of the country they’ve chosen to inhabit. To them, we are outsiders, who don’t understand them, to us they are outsiders, who don’t want to understand us.

And there, of course is a HUGE part of the problem: we are all coming from the “I” position.

At the same time, I think all American children should be being required to learn more than one foreign language as part of their education. What arrogance we display, purporting to be a world power, but exhibiting such disrespect and disinterest in “others” we won’t even learn to speak the languages of other cultures. It’s a two way street.

On the other hand, what am I smokin’? – we don’t even teach half or more of our children how to read and write our own language anymore.

The health issues are self evident for us all. But universal health care isn’t going to address the issue of the drain on the system inflicted by illegal immigrants. Do we want to turn an “illegal” away from a hospital in time of need? I can certainly see not wanting to – on the other hand, being here illegally is ILLEGAL. So at least, if you go get medical care, then you go to jail and then you go home. Right? If we won’t insist on having the “rules” adhered to, then we can’t make any system work.

Then, there’s working here. The US government proclaims that it is illegal to enter this country to work without papers. But every harvest season, for generations, the US government has allowed, and does allow, corporations to “import” workers, because Americans won’t do the work for the low pay offered – or maybe they won’t do it at all. So, why do these commercial enterprises not simply have to pay what it takes? And provide working conditions that will encourage Americans to do the work? And why do workers here complain about immigrants taking their jobs, when in fact, immigrants, illegal or not, traditionally take jobs Americans won’t do? (Not exclusively – but not on a small scale, by a long shot)

Then, when “we” don’t want them here anymore, they’re “very bad” for sneaking in; but we’ll teach school in their languages, change almost all signage in the US to include at least two languages, allow them to vote, allow them to not pay taxes; allow them to get health care, while at the same time conspiring with them to cheat our own social security system because it’s cheaper for us. And then, if it’s not quite working out in the profit margin for corporate America, we’ll pass a NAFTA or two, and move all the jobs away from oversight/ aka away from Americans.

In the border states, Mexican children come across every day to go to American schools. No taxes being paid there. Do we really have to build a wall, to keep an eye on who’s going to our public schools?

So this is just enormously screwed up from A to Z. I don’t see how charging every illegal $1,000 (i.e. selling entry tickets – and is nobody on the other side of the border going to notice how that works?) is going to change much of anything. Then in two years, what? Send them back to stand in line. How does that do anybody any good – unless maybe relieve some of the nasty “shrivelled” feeling being experienced on this side of the border, from capitulating to our own bungling?

The bottom line, appears from here to be: we are not willing to take the societal measures that will help us exist with what we already have; or to become united enough to get to a place where having people of different cultures here can be a good experience for us all. And we have neither the spine, nor the unity, nor the resolve to put a better system in place for the future.

[Tony]

granny, well put. and a very realistic view.

i think the politicians and the people need to use "reason and common sense" and be honest with themselves to solve this problem. the almighty dollar is way to powerful in the decision making of the immigration issue.

[granny]

Tony says:"politicians and the people need to use "reason and common sense" and be honest with themselves"

Granny says: Well. There you have it. No immigration bill. No health care. No timeline. No education. No impeachment...

You know, I'll say it here : you guys who keep this going for all of us, have my heartfelt admiration. No kidding. How you slog through this depressing, endless litany of excuses and apologies and deceipts, dig up more - and more, keep us informed, and don't just fold up and collapse in a heap of despair is sometimes beyond me.

I mean, just watching Jack Kingston is enough to keep you throwing up all morning.

Maybe, some of it, anyway, is youth. I remember ... having the energy, keeping my eye on the prize; not having so much "history" to keep nudging the wounds in my heart.

You're the warriors now, and I thank you.